Some reviews are too technical....

Posted by Rich on 6/20/2003, 9:42 am

Some reviews I've read concentrate too much on the inner workings of every technical thing of how the song was recorded. We all have varying levels of equipment from the lowest to the highest end quality. I've said from the beginning that in my opinion, we should concentrate on constructive criticism

yes and no...

Posted by Alex on 6/24/2003, 5:17 pm, in reply to "Some reviews are too technical...."

I agree that the basic song (music and lyrics) is the most important thing, but if there are technical aspects which hinder the listening experience then it is important to bring those up. If the vocals are too low in the mix or if there is so much reverb on them you cant understand them, then how can you make a fair estimation of the lyrical merit of the song? We certainly aren't helping anyone by ignoring these things. Technical observations may not be important over all, but they can be helpful and constructive. On the flip side, I will admit that it is easy to get get carried away (and anal) with technical advice. We sometimes forget that there are many limitations to home recording and so that advice does often come unwelcome. So to anyone reviewing my work let me say this for the record: Please feel free to be as technical in your opinion as you like. I am interested in the whole picture - the writing, the performance, & the production.
Thanks,
-Alex

 

Re: Some reviews are too technical....

Posted by bobbio on 6/20/2003, 12:19 pm, in reply to "Some reviews are too technical...."

I figure the reviews should be song first and then comments on presentation....that's what I get from publishers....anything that detracts from presenting the song I would think the writer would wanna know...my score, however, reflects the song itself....that's how I do it....okay with you all?

Bobby

continued....(pressed "post" by mistake)...

Posted by Ric on 6/20/2003, 10:06 am, in reply to "Some reviews are too technical...."

....related to songwriting. The song is the core of why we are here. If someone has a great song but can't produce it properly they can always have someone else do it. This shouldn't be a "producing" contest. Maybe there should be one. But I still believe that we should mainly be reviewing song structure, melody, originality, composition and not whether there should be more "flange" on the whatsus and less high end on the whosits. In some cases it may be necessary to tell somebody to turn down the reverb on the vocal because you can't hear the lyrics but in general some of the reviews concentrate too much on producing and not enough on the nuts and bolts of songwriting. We all have the ability to write words and music. That's a level playing field. But equipment-wise the field is not level. And although producing supposedly doesn't matter in the JLSC (we all know it does) it shouldn't matter in the IFC. Some of the reviews get real nit picky about things that are probably out of the control of that particular songwriter. If a singer is singing out of tune, that's fair game. But going into details about mics and compression and such is hardly going to help someone sing on pitch. I think if the production values are so bad that they ruin the song, the person should be told that. But sometimes a good sounding song with a decent production is pulled apart with comments regading production values that are VERY subjective and reflect the personal tastes of the reviewer and little to do with the quality of the sonwriting. They do little to help the songwriter WRITE better songs. I understand the fun that audiophiles have in getting into the minutia of recording techniques but let's help each other become better songwriters. The producing/recording class is down the hall.

Re: continued....(pressed "post" by mistake)...

Posted by hazelglow on 6/20/2003, 10:42 am, in reply to "continued....(pressed "post" by mistake)..."

I think that this issue is precisely why doing our own little IFC's here has been so fascinating - a) it's really shown up how each of us tend to listen out for totally different things, and b) just how difficult it is to separate out production and arrangement and writing and performance ability and recording quality and instrumentation, and, and, and... well you get my drift.

Speaking for myself, I am always grabbed by a melody first. Plus I also believe a song should never be hard work to listen to - and if production elements hold it back in that regard, well, I'm probably going to mark it down.

It's not wrong or right, nor is it any better than anybody else's way of judging; it's just me!

- Haze.

P.S.

Posted by hazelglow on 6/20/2003, 11:05 am, in reply to "Re: continued....(pressed "

All of which (the diversity in our judging, I mean) is a good thing. If, when we enter a song in our contest, we know somebody is going to be listening out primarily for the lyrics, somebody else is going to be listening out for the melody, somebody else is maybe thinking more about the overall arrangement, somebody else's ear is focussed on performance, and somebody else is going to be tuned into production values; then isn't that going to make each of us strive to do better in all these areas?

Which is, of course, exactly what we need to be doing if we are hoping to ever impress anybody out there in the big, bad, real world with our work...

No point in spending all our efforts dressing up a crappy song; or vice versa - letting a good song suffer under dreadful production and/or arrangement; we have to work at getting all the elements to come together.

- Haze.

Re: P.S.

Posted by Geof on 6/20/2003, 1:29 pm, in reply to "P.S."

To state the obvious, the average listener doesn't think about anything specific, they just know what they like. An important element of production is that nothing "distracts" from the song, like unintentional things such as tones that clash or are unattractive, flat vocals, poor mixing, lyrics that don't seem in context - virtually all the things that show up in the critiques. We help streamline each others songs by pointing out what distracts from the meaning the artist seems to be driving at.

It's the flip-side of of positive/constructive, where the goal is to find the "right" sounds and the "right" words.

Why be in a hurry with intra-forum "songwriting" contest

Posted by nancy g on 6/19/2003, 4:22 pm

Why is everyone is such a hurry here to post a review? Has everyone read the rules...? This is still open for songs to judge on "songwriting"..after all here we are at the JLSC "SC" stands for songwriting contest. Looks like some are judging by their own tastes. I believe we should really listen to these songs and read the lyrics and get a feeling for the message being conveyed. This should be helpful for the songwriter. Okay, also who wrote the song and are they singing it and what instruments are they playing. We should consider where the
song was recorded...I record at home. My 8 track recorders zip drive is out. I
can't fix or re-mix anything. I have won here at the JLSC 3 times and I believe
they were judged right, plenty of time and they read the lyrics and felt the mood
of the song and something caught their ear. We should be helping one another
improve. I am not a judge but I am a good listener. I care about everyone here
at JLSC...

I promise I will really give each song at least 4 listens and I will read the lyrics.
I will not post a review until the intr-forum #4 songwriting contest is closed for
any more entries. Then I will carefully listen to all the songs and read the lyrics.

I am always the only girl here lol...your guys have a lot of hormones!!! :-)

I will listen to each song until I find something I love about it.... it takes time
and consideration to others..

Hope I don't upset the hormone level here...lol..but you guys are just to quick!
Poor Christina is so nice to do this. She works her butt off and has a full time
job and a family to take care of. All the post and reviews are wearing her out.

we should all just be listening to the songs right now and get a good feel for them...

Spoken in all sincerity..I hope I don't make you guys mad.

Nancy G

Very Valid Points, And Food For Thought

Posted by David Tallent on 6/19/2003, 8:30 pm, in reply to "Why be in a hurry with intra-forum "songwriting" contest"

 

I agree with all you have said, Nancy, and am guilty as charged. I don't listen to every song four times, and if the lyrics are too much trouble to get to, I don't read them. I also don't listen to every song until I find something I like. Luckily, so far, I've found something I like in all the entries for this contest, and 98% of the past entries/contests.

Being a musician and doing my own recording/producing, I sometimes focus too much on those aspects of a song. I need, as you suggested, to slow down and "smell the message" of each song.

Thank you!

 

Soooooooo tired......... Well, sort of!

Posted by christina on 6/19/2003, 4:40 pm, in reply to "Why be in a hurry with intra-forum "songwriting" contest"

I do this to myself, so it's not really anybody else's fault but my own. But I take it as a learning opportunity, as a personal challenge. I'm not really complaining, just b###hing a bit (female hormonal prerogative LOL)

But Nancy's right, what's the rush? By rushing to post reviews without hearing all the songs first you end up not having a clear idea of their relative merits. But whatever. I'll just be crunching numbers and they will be as accurate as your reviews LOL!